Meeting Schedule, Agendas and Minutes

October 2, 2003 Minutes

The fourth meeting of the Governor's Blue Ribbon Task Force on Financing Student Success convened at 10:30 am on October 2, 2003.

In attendance were Chairman Bill Wilkins, Vice Chair Jim Hyre, John Brandt, Eric Burkland, Walt Davis, Matt Filipic, Chuck Gossett, Christine Hansen, Russ Harris, William Hartnett, Jim Hoops, Jeff Jacobson, Tom Johnson, David Locke, Dick Maxwell, Tom Mooney, Barbara Shaner, Jennifer Sheets, Barbara Sprague, Richard Stoff, David Varda, Scott Williams, Dennis Woods, and Tom Zaino.

Chairman Wilkins opened the meeting with a review of his one-on-one sessions with Task Force members. He observed that the Task Force, in completing its charge from Governor Taft, should take into account the considerable work that has already been done in the areas of school funding and taxation. Everyone he talked to has a sincere desire to improve the current system. Mr. Wilkins organized Task Force members' comments according to the three committees.

Revenue and Taxation

• We need to look at what other states are doing, including Michigan and Vermont.
• Some urged reductions in taxes to improve competitiveness.
• There was some concern about shifting business taxes from one type of business to another, yet manufacturers say they are paying a disproportionate share of business taxes.
• Most want to get rid of the tangible personal property tax, but are uncertain as to how to replace the lost revenues.
• Some point to sin taxes as part of the solution.
• There is a need to foster capital investments in Ohio.
• Restrictions on increases in real property tax revenues caused by H.B. 920 are an issue.
• Ohio needs a compact among business, education and the community to assure that, if we spend more, we first need to make sure that what we are spending currently is being spent wisely.
• A dependable, predictable revenue stream is desired by school treasurers, but some say that is not possible.
• One Task Force member suggested that we examine how New York approves school district budgets.
• Over-reliance on property tax causes inequities, but it is a stable and predictable source of revenue.
• We need to simplify the school funding system so that citizens understand it, even if they do not like it.

Operations and Efficiency

• Do we need 612 school districts? Some say there are too many school districts while others say that school districts are already too large.
• Can we do more purchasing centrally?
• We should look at the model school budget process developed by the treasurer of Mason City School District.
• Can we buy health care insurance centrally?
• We should look at the possibility of outsourcing for some teaching and nonteaching positions.
• Since it is difficult to hire certain teachers, we may need to pay some teachers (e.g., mathematics and science teachers) more. Supply and demand is an issue.
• Should there be minimum qualifications for school board members?
• The cost-of-doing-business factor may benefit suburbs disproportionately.
• Pay for performance is something to examine.

In response to questions about these observations, Chairman Wilkins repeated that he was simply relating what Task Force members had shared with him. Everything is still on the table.

Funding for Success

• Should urban school districts be treated differently? There is a general dissatisfaction with the Disadvantaged Pupil Impact Aid program.
• How should we calculate attendance?
• Spending more money without increased accountability is a waste.
• Too many children are labeled as gifted or disabled. We need to look at how we identify such children.
• Phantom Revenue is a problem.
• Hold-harmless and guarantee provisions are a problem. Can we continue to afford these?
• The Battelle for Kids initiative will give us some great data on performance and progress.
• Funding needs to be commensurate with accountability requirements.
• Charter schools are not held to the same standards as other public schools, according to some.
• We need to examine the state-local funding partnership.
• Ohio had made good progress on accountability, then Congress passed No Child Left Behind. There is some concern about what this means for Ohio.

Chairman Wilkins spoke briefly about the work of the Task Force's three committees. He noted that Task Force members should be able to monitor the work of other committees, since committees should meet at different times. Meetings may be held outside of Columbus, it's up to the chairs and committee members.

Mr. Wilkins stated that the price is too high for the Task Force not to make significant changes for improving our current system. We cannot just tinker around the margins.

Chairman Wilkins turned the meeting over to Vice Chairman Jim Hyre, who facilitated the roundtable discussion.

Following is a list of the ideas, by relevant committee, that were generated during the roundtable discussion.

Revenue and Taxation

• Examine the impact of the tax reduction factors on school districts.
• Refocus debate away from levies for increased taxes (NY and PA models).
• Interaction of the 20-mill floor and the 23-mill charge-off is a problem.
• Consider the effects of tax changes on other units of local government.
• Examine the possibility of a statewide property tax.
• Review Mason City Schools budget model.
• Investigate the Hinshaw doctoral thesis that correlated spending and performance.
• Consider a phase-in period for changes.
• Discuss relevant prior studies and past efforts.

Operations and Efficiency

• Districts' human resources is a factor.
• School year still driven by agrarian model; is this appropriate?
• Need to manage the scope of the research.
• Review the Mason City Schools budget model.
• Investigate the Hinshaw doctoral thesis that correlated spending and performance.
• Maintain local school district discretion related to spending.
• Review alternative education delivery models.
• How do compensation improvements relate to delivery?
• Discuss relevant prior studies and past efforts.

Funding For Success

• Examine the costs of No Child Left Behind.
• How do we determine adequacy?
• Need to recognize the policy role of the legislature.
• Instead of determining adequacy, should fund standards of opportunity.
• In addition to standards of opportunity, we should look at standards of results.
• Review Mason City Schools budget model.
• Investigate the Hinshaw doctoral thesis that correlated spending and performance.
• Determine resources necessary for intervention for regular students.
• State should fund pre-school for disadvantaged students.
• Our economy is now knowledge based; we are in danger of forming a caste system.
• Need to reduce funding disparities within the formula.
• Consider a phase-in for changes.
• Discuss relevant prior studies and past efforts.

After the roundtable discussion the three committees met. Following is a brief summary of these meetings.

Revenue and Taxation

This committee's next meeting will be on October 16th from 12:30 pm to 4:30 pm at the Department of Taxation Training room on the 23rd floor of the Rhodes Tower. The subsequent meeting will be on October 27th from 12:30 pm to 4:30 pm, at a site that is yet to be determined.

At the two meetings, the committee is tentatively planning to cover five topics, but it is not yet determined which topics will be discussed at which meeting. The five topics are:

1. Determination of principles for evaluating the funding and tax systems.
2. School reform efforts in other states.
3. Ohio School Boards Association and Department of Taxation reform plans.
4. Tax structures in Ohio's surrounding states.
5. Overall business taxes in our surrounding states.

Operations and Efficiency

The Operations and Efficiency committee will meet on October 13th from 10:00 am to 1:00 pm. Neither the agenda nor the location has been finalized, except that the committee will review the suggestions made by Task Force members for the work of the committee and prioritize them.

Funding for Success

Members of the Funding for Success committee discussed their overall mission as it relates to the Task Force within the timeframe given. It was determined that the committee first needs to explore the definition of success and the variables known to result in successful outcomes, particularly those variables that can be controlled. The importance of determining successful variables for special need groups was highlighted. In order to explore these variables the committee would like to hear from both the Department of Education on overall research available on what data shows to result in successful outcomes and Superintendent Barbara Byrd-Bennett on how Cleveland Municipal School District has achieved success in recent years. That meeting will be held on Thursday, October 16 - specific time and place to be determined.

Committees adjourned at approximately 2:15 pm.

• Building a Better School Funding System
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